Sep 11 19:54:13 who's Sean Bolton? Sep 11 19:54:50 elvis' twin sister Sep 11 19:54:54 I am Sean Bolton Sep 11 19:55:02 or rather, who can tell me why there's no call to gtk_widget_show{,_all}() in fluidsynth-dssi? Sep 11 19:55:23 --> daniel-vlc (n=daniel@212.225.201.51) has joined #lad Sep 11 19:55:28 hi Sep 11 19:55:32 will the real sean bolton Sep 11 19:55:32 hence making it extraordinarily useless? Sep 11 19:55:34 please shut up Sep 11 19:55:51 i have a question... Sep 11 19:55:56 me too Sep 11 19:55:59 but im not going to ask Sep 11 19:56:16 drobilla: shut up you Sep 11 19:56:27 I know your name; I know your game Sep 11 19:56:32 people stil have soundfonts on their drives? Sep 11 19:56:47 i havent seen one since 1998 Sep 11 19:56:51 *I'm* Sean Bolton! Sep 11 19:57:01 two: soundfonts are great Sep 11 19:57:24 the archaicness is tempting, i admit Sep 11 19:57:25 no *I'm* Sparticus^WSean Bolton! Sep 11 19:57:36 two: Sep 11 19:57:45 im Ben Hur Sep 11 19:57:56 they work just as well as any other format, it's well-documented, and there's loads of them about, quite often for free Sep 11 19:58:06 and often Free as well as free Sep 11 19:58:11 one ladspa plugin can know if the frames received are valid? Sep 11 19:58:19 thats the thing, i never have seen them Sep 11 19:58:22 and i was a warez pup for half a decade Sep 11 19:58:27 i always saw reason, kontakt, etc librarie Sep 11 19:58:31 hrm Sep 11 19:58:32 or even akai/roland/etc sampleCD Sep 11 19:58:45 two: got any good Emu CDs? Sep 11 19:58:46 plus soundfiles with embedded metadata are evol Sep 11 19:59:04 my favorite is Zero G Datafiles Sep 11 19:59:07 afaik just CDDA Sep 11 19:59:10 soundfonts work with fluidsynth all nice and easily Sep 11 19:59:12 every house sample ever in them Sep 11 19:59:24 anything else requires linuxsampler, which is all huge and weird. and qt. and not open source. :) Sep 11 19:59:32 ye Sep 11 19:59:34 fluidsynth ftw Sep 11 19:59:46 WHY? Sep 11 19:59:51 WHY DAMMIT WHY?! Sep 11 20:00:01 and if you can't be arsed firing up swami and you just want a couple of samples, specimen is rawk too Sep 11 20:00:02 WHY IS THERE NO gtk_widget_show_all()?! Sep 11 20:00:07 IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE Sep 11 20:00:34 DOES NOT COMPUTE Sep 11 20:01:04 gtk_window_present? Sep 11 20:01:30 nothing Sep 11 20:01:31 /win 14 Sep 11 20:01:39 i'am making and testing a ladspa plugin on ardour... and when i stop the transport the cpu & dsp usage raise to 100% Sep 11 20:01:42 the fluidsynth DSSI gui does not display Sep 11 20:01:54 the one in the debian package doesn't display Sep 11 20:01:59 wfm Sep 11 20:02:01 the one compiled from source doesn't display Sep 11 20:02:06 rah: distro? Sep 11 20:02:24 the one in which I put a call to gtk_widget_show_all() does display Sep 11 20:02:28 EXPLAIN THIS. Sep 11 20:02:30 I think rah's machine is one of those.. y'know. 'special' systems :) Sep 11 20:02:35 gordonjcp: debian testing Sep 11 20:02:48 i can know if the transport is running from the plugin? Sep 11 20:03:00 rah: don't know if it's affected too (Suspect yes) but are you sure it's not just taking a long time? Sep 11 20:03:03 drobilla: by 'special' do you mean better than yours? Sep 11 20:03:06 daniel-vlc: the plugin is probably deactivated at that time Sep 11 20:03:17 rah: a) I doubt it Sep 11 20:03:22 rah: things that use OSC take a fucking long time to start in Ubuntu *if* avahi is running Sep 11 20:03:22 not drobilla ... Sep 11 20:03:25 rah: b) I mean shit mysteriously doesn't work where it works everywhere else ;) Sep 11 20:03:34 daniel-vlc: ? Sep 11 20:03:44 gordonjcp: the OSC stuff takes time anyway Sep 11 20:03:54 gordonjcp: it goes past that and calls gtk_main() Sep 11 20:03:55 i put cout on activate and deactivate to test ... Sep 11 20:04:00 yeah, but in Ubuntu it takes at least 30 seconds Sep 11 20:04:01 gordonjcp: and does nothing.. Sep 11 20:04:08 drobilla: go on then, what spec machine? Sep 11 20:04:11 daniel-vlc: could be a denormal in the plugin Sep 11 20:04:45 --> swh (n=swh@88-97-6-240.dsl.zen.co.uk) has joined #lad Sep 11 20:04:48 rah: umm.... infinity cores Sep 11 20:04:51 hah Sep 11 20:05:01 FAIL. Sep 11 20:05:03 this not occurs on jack-rack... Sep 11 20:05:05 * rah wins Sep 11 20:05:13 therefore, my penis is bigger Sep 11 20:05:29 rah: here in suse 11 the fluidsynth-dssi package installs a file /usr/lib/dssi/fluidsynth-dssi/FluidSynth-DSSI_gtk wich seems to be library with calls to e.g. gtk_widget_show according to nm Sep 11 20:05:30 daniel-vlc: do you know why? Sep 11 20:05:33 yeah, well my C++ compiler works :P Sep 11 20:05:41 pennis ??? another ladspa plugin??? Sep 11 20:05:50 Q6600 for the record. yeah, not much Sep 11 20:05:53 daniel-vlc: because jack-rack is an amazing piece of software Sep 11 20:06:25 however I measure awesome in units of cores. if you have 8, screw you :P Sep 11 20:07:46 ok thanks Sep 11 20:07:49 <-- daniel-vlc (n=daniel@212.225.201.51) has left #lad ("Abandonando") Sep 11 20:07:53 edogawa: the binary on debian is stripped Sep 11 20:08:28 rah: what do you have anyway? Sep 11 20:09:14 3.0Ghz 45nm Dual Core, 4GB 1333MHz, 750G, ATI HD4850 Sep 11 20:09:25 and it's got a flip-out fan controller Sep 11 20:09:28 yikes, ATI Sep 11 20:09:38 two: free, innit Sep 11 20:09:51 i donno. was pure 3 years of hell for me Sep 11 20:09:56 nice clock Sep 11 20:10:00 but 2 cores is unacceptable :) Sep 11 20:10:07 * kfoltman has Q6700 :P Sep 11 20:10:08 I dunno Sep 11 20:10:23 bought cheaper than drobilla's :P Sep 11 20:10:28 seems to be quite acceptable to me :) Sep 11 20:10:29 my only dual core machine is my lappy :) Sep 11 20:10:33 kfoltman: I've had mine a long time :P Sep 11 20:10:37 damn my laptop is faster than my main box Sep 11 20:10:49 drobilla: early adopters always overpay ;) Sep 11 20:10:53 two: you know AMD released NDA-less hardware documentation? Sep 11 20:11:08 kfoltman: hardly, it was a steal at the time Sep 11 20:11:10 rah: so did Zilog for Z80 ;) Sep 11 20:11:25 kfoltman: they were dudes Sep 11 20:11:30 and the Z80 rocked Sep 11 20:11:45 yes, back in ... 1982? :) Sep 11 20:11:50 the R770 rocks also Sep 11 20:11:54 may the headquarters of nvidia burn down with the doors mysteriously welded shut Sep 11 20:11:55 amen Sep 11 20:11:56 kfoltman: no Sep 11 20:12:04 kfoltman: it rocks now, as well :) Sep 11 20:12:25 drobilla: you have one of the "affected" chipsets? (I have 8600GT, not mobile one fortunately) Sep 11 20:12:36 kfoltman: no idea what you're talking about Sep 11 20:12:41 kfoltman: do I want to know? :) Sep 11 20:12:51 drobilla: depends on if you want to worry Sep 11 20:13:25 I have enough anxiety disorders to fill a textbook Sep 11 20:13:30 no, I don't especially want to worry :) Sep 11 20:13:37 anxiety? you? :O Sep 11 20:14:16 --> AudioFranky (n=franky@pD9E9A471.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #lad Sep 11 20:14:29 if you don't have a mobile nvidia chipset, you don't need to worry much anyway Sep 11 20:14:40 especially if you don't play lots of GPU-intensive games Sep 11 20:14:41 I just wished that the entire company would die in a fire Sep 11 20:14:46 no, I don't have an nvidia chipset :) Sep 11 20:15:09 --> swh_ (n=swh@88-97-6-240.dsl.zen.co.uk) has joined #lad Sep 11 20:15:10 * drobilla actually votes with his dollar Sep 11 20:16:16 basically, their series 8 GPUs have some sort of design problem that makes them break from lots of what they call "thermal cycles" (heating/cooling) Sep 11 20:16:34 which means some laptop companies (like dell) released drivers that made the fans run for 100% of the time Sep 11 20:16:50 <-- silverblade has quit (Remote closed the connection) Sep 11 20:17:06 ah. is that the thing I've been seeing in headlines that eveyone's all pissed about? nvidia being sued etc? Sep 11 20:17:22 more or less Sep 11 20:17:52 yes - however, either the person who suggests that is full of shit, or nvidia is playing coverup - the latter is probably more likely but not guaranteed Sep 11 20:18:45 meh Sep 11 20:18:54 I'm just happy to see things that are bad for nvidia :) Sep 11 20:19:04 sue em! sue em to death! :) Sep 11 20:19:25 anyway, even if my 8600gt dies, I still have the onboard Intel :P Sep 11 20:19:29 I like nvidia Sep 11 20:19:36 I quite like having 3d acceleration Sep 11 20:19:46 --> slvmchn (n=slvmecha@pool-96-233-22-192.bstnma.east.verizon.net) has joined #lad Sep 11 20:20:01 the Linux graphics driver situation is a disgrace anyway Sep 11 20:20:03 ati drivers have 3d acceleration also as it happens Sep 11 20:20:07 <-- swh has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) Sep 11 20:20:36 I like not having mysterious binary blobs of latency destroying proprietary shit in my kernel Sep 11 20:20:53 drobilla: also, don't forget that existence of nvidia might have been a motivating factor for intel to cooperate with open source devs :) Sep 11 20:21:18 yeah, the nvidia binary blob size is ridiculous Sep 11 20:21:22 being so evil you motivate others to compete with good is not an admirable thing :P Sep 11 20:21:30 nvidia == ms Sep 11 20:21:39 intel == ms as well Sep 11 20:21:56 600lbs gorillas everywhere Sep 11 20:21:56 ati/amd == we all love Sep 11 20:22:04 intel cooperates nicely with open source things and releases hardware specs Sep 11 20:22:23 intel also employs Keith Packard, don't they? Sep 11 20:22:38 just wait for them to become monopolists, and then we'll see how nice they are ;) Sep 11 20:22:39 hell, buying anything but an intel graphics/chipset laptop to use with linux == shit doesn't work Sep 11 20:23:07 yes, these things change Sep 11 20:23:21 the current state is indeed intel > ati > nvidia Sep 11 20:23:30 * rah listens to My Life in the Bush of Ghosts Sep 11 20:23:30 well, except MS. they'll evil themselves to oblivion before cooperating with anyone in any way whatsoever, ever Sep 11 20:23:48 MS doesn't learn... ever Sep 11 20:23:54 unless you pay Sep 11 20:24:09 and base all your software on "The Microsoft Platform" Sep 11 20:24:17 then they're your best friend Sep 11 20:24:39 rah: until they decide to release a product competing with yours (and potentially solely based on your work) Sep 11 20:24:47 s/solely/primarily/ Sep 11 20:24:50 yes, until then, of course Sep 11 20:24:58 see: Novell vs MS Sep 11 20:25:18 novell can suck a dick too :) Sep 11 20:25:20 a guy from Novell works for the same company as me, he still hasn't got over it Sep 11 20:25:37 it = Netware fiasco Sep 11 20:26:49 he was a netware man? Sep 11 20:27:31 ffs Sep 11 20:27:37 rosegarden is starting to piss me off Sep 11 20:28:55 it'll load a DSSI gui Sep 11 20:28:58 once Sep 11 20:29:09 not more than once, that would be usable Sep 11 20:29:11 just the once, thanks Sep 11 20:29:49 --> silverblade (n=silverbl@reactos/developer/silverblade) has joined #lad Sep 11 20:30:39 interesting, considering its author is the main proponent of the "if we change the meaning of the first letter of DSSI it's no longer shit" school of thought :) Sep 11 20:32:46 does LASH work yet? Sep 11 20:33:29 maligor: yes Sep 11 20:33:40 well, he worked on some part of netware Sep 11 20:34:15 rah: seems to Sep 11 20:34:32 now where's nedko so I can rip his head off ;) Sep 11 20:34:34 the most recent release of patchage should work with svn lash via d-bus Sep 11 20:34:53 and what supports svn lash? Sep 11 20:34:58 the announcement for which still hasn't shown up on laa damnit Sep 11 20:35:00 apps I mean? Sep 11 20:35:05 rah: the old API should still work Sep 11 20:35:14 rah: specimen Sep 11 20:35:16 so which apps support the old API? Sep 11 20:35:23 --> ppalmers (n=ppalmers@62.235.128.98) has joined #lad Sep 11 20:36:59 arg Sep 11 20:37:09 the only sequencer seems to be that twat male's Sep 11 20:38:14 and why oh why does the link to the list of LASH-capable apps from nongnu.org to linuxaudio.org go into a frame? Sep 11 20:38:28 this is bad and wrong Sep 11 20:38:50 wasn't me Sep 11 20:39:11 I am an extremely militant opposer of webpages opening new windows :) Sep 11 20:39:28 though I still can't seem to configure effing epiphany (gecko) to never, ever, ever do it Sep 11 20:39:36 it doesn't open in a new window Sep 11 20:39:49 web developers who do that should be shot Sep 11 20:39:52 it opens in a frame in the nongnu.org page Sep 11 20:39:55 frames too ;) Sep 11 20:39:59 yes, they should Sep 11 20:40:09 who did the LASH page? Sep 11 20:40:17 or didn't do it, as the case may be Sep 11 20:40:29 me originally Sep 11 20:40:33 >:| Sep 11 20:40:36 if you consider that 5 minutes "doing" Sep 11 20:41:27 oh, it's trac now Sep 11 20:41:31 that wasn't me Sep 11 20:41:45 nedko and iuso have about a million times more to do with everything now than I do Sep 11 20:42:14 I never really wanted to have to deal with it in the first place anyway :) Sep 11 20:42:14 it usually helps when Linux audio isn't just one person :P Sep 11 20:42:41 indeed :) Sep 11 20:43:38 though nedko is way less prone to actually produce usable released software than even I am, heh Sep 11 20:43:58 speaking of which: test ingen, bitches Sep 11 20:44:22 what does it do? Sep 11 20:44:34 and.... you could win a *** NEW CAR *** (*) Sep 11 20:44:36 I forget Sep 11 20:44:39 (* offer void everywhere) Sep 11 20:44:51 drobilla: was that an offer to cxo? :P Sep 11 20:44:58 rah: modular synth/etc Sep 11 20:45:01 * rah listens to Burial - Untrue Sep 11 20:45:05 drobilla: oh yeah Sep 11 20:45:27 who, what Sep 11 20:45:38 why the fuck are nedko and iuso farting around adding d-bus support to LASH when LASH is basically Very Broken? Sep 11 20:45:41 not an offer to anyone, I hate cars :) Sep 11 20:45:49 why is it Very Broken? Sep 11 20:45:53 number one Sep 11 20:45:58 Number One, top issue Sep 11 20:46:06 that's plain as can be Sep 11 20:46:13 persistent directories Sep 11 20:46:22 and to answer your question that crowd has an unhealthy infatuation with d-bus that has warped their minds Sep 11 20:46:31 which means? Sep 11 20:46:33 it's broken because rah designed it that way, i suppose Sep 11 20:46:54 dbus is just slightly homosexual Sep 11 20:47:11 drobilla: saying "use directory " "stop using directory " "use directory " Sep 11 20:47:20 cxo: you're slightly homosexual Sep 11 20:47:24 real men write their own ipc Sep 11 20:47:30 thorwil: bite me Sep 11 20:47:39 thorwil: actually, bite cxo, he'd enjoy it more Sep 11 20:47:40 rah: i'm not dbus Sep 11 20:47:41 thorwil, bite him Sep 11 20:47:42 rah: no idea what you mean Sep 11 20:48:17 nono. cxo is a douchebag. douchebags and teh gheys are like... oil and water. or something. Sep 11 20:48:19 drobilla: man, what the hell are you doing? Sep 11 20:49:01 sitting in my apartment? trying to get this stupid sun grid engine thing to accept my friggin job? wasting time blathering about nothing in here? Sep 11 20:49:29 JackDbusDriver.cpp:1150: error: ‘class Patchage’ has no member named ‘status_message’ Sep 11 20:49:45 kfoltman: god damnit Sep 11 20:49:53 drobilla: " Server, I want to store my state in a directory" " App, use directory " " Server, OK" " App, stop using directory so I can tar the directory up, or move it or do whatever the hell I want" " Server, OK" " App, use directory " Sep 11 20:49:55 * drobilla forgot to test release with jack dbus Sep 11 20:49:57 maybe that's because I'm no bitch Sep 11 20:50:15 or any other canine, for that matter Sep 11 20:50:23 * cxo wants to write jackd -d net for windows Sep 11 20:50:23 rah: ok Sep 11 20:50:31 rah: makes sense, but a far cry from "fundamentally broken" Sep 11 20:50:40 no, that's pretty fundamental Sep 11 20:50:49 and pretty broken that it doesn't do it Sep 11 20:51:06 it's the reason Ardour doesn't support LASH Sep 11 20:51:10 and probably others, too Sep 11 20:51:50 and there's nedko & co. pissing about with D-Bus Sep 11 20:51:52 ardour doesn't support lash because noone's written full on support yet :P Sep 11 20:52:09 onus of which lies primarily on myself Sep 11 20:52:29 well, Paul said he was waiting for persistent directories before adding support Sep 11 20:52:33 so I'm going by that Sep 11 20:53:04 I think you're confusing issues Sep 11 20:53:18 I don't Sep 11 20:53:23 ok Sep 11 20:53:27 I know you're confusing issues :P Sep 11 20:53:36 he's confusing issues Sep 11 20:53:37 paul is of the opinion that the first little bit of your dialog there is wrong Sep 11 20:53:58 err Sep 11 20:54:10 that's a a modification of the dialog Sep 11 20:54:19 because ardour is big mister special Sep 11 20:54:22 the issue is that no dialog exists at all Sep 11 20:54:36 in any case lash does need /something/ to make things like ardour happier, yes Sep 11 20:54:43 lash bash rash Sep 11 20:55:01 rah: lash tells clients where to save Sep 11 20:55:03 roadrash! Sep 11 20:55:05 * cxo reminisces Sep 11 20:55:26 drobilla: does it? :) Sep 11 20:55:31 I didn't know that! :) Sep 11 20:55:42 rah: um... ooookay Sep 11 20:55:48 I only wrote the thing :) Sep 11 20:56:11 well that's the first part of your dialog innit? :P Sep 11 20:56:38 no Sep 11 20:56:42 it just needs to be moved to a different time Sep 11 20:56:48 the "use" would have different semantics Sep 11 20:57:11 yes, but this isn't paul's issue Sep 11 20:57:21 paul thinks lash shouldn't be able to tell ardour where the directory is whatsoever Sep 11 20:57:30 thus defeating the entire purpose of lash Sep 11 20:57:31 at present, the directory is only guaranteed to exist between the time when the server tells the client to save, and when the client tells the server it's saved Sep 11 20:57:44 not really Sep 11 20:58:10 there's nothing really tying directories to the lash project directory Sep 11 20:58:28 meh Sep 11 20:58:44 we could do it that way, and write a ton of crap to roll up the project into one place for archival and blah blah blah Sep 11 20:58:54 well, hardly a ton Sep 11 20:59:00 or just design it so the stuff is always in one place anyway and trivial for the user to deal with using whatever they prefer Sep 11 20:59:05 <-- sampo_v2 has quit ("Leaving") Sep 11 20:59:21 it's academic Sep 11 20:59:25 it's an implementation detail Sep 11 20:59:28 I like the latter. Sep 11 20:59:41 the issue is the lack of any facility, either way Sep 11 20:59:43 since the latter is simpler, I win by default, and you have to justify otherwise :) Sep 11 20:59:51 well, yeah Sep 11 20:59:55 lash needs to be able to give the dir up front Sep 11 21:00:03 and, to go back to my original point, that needs to be dealt with and nedko & co. aren't doing that Sep 11 21:00:16 they assume lash is done Sep 11 21:00:19 the fools Sep 11 21:00:24 they just won't listen Sep 11 21:00:31 ... you're not doing it either Sep 11 21:00:46 no, but I'm not being paid to work on LASH over the summer Sep 11 21:00:57 if I were, I would be working on it Sep 11 21:01:08 iuso submitted a proposal of concrete goals at the start of summer Sep 11 21:01:16 and worked towards those (successfully for all but one) Sep 11 21:01:27 if he went off and did other shit, he would have failed and not been paid Sep 11 21:01:46 the problem is that the concrete goals were the wrong goals Sep 11 21:01:52 which I tried to tell him Sep 11 21:01:57 maybe Sep 11 21:02:03 the protocol sucked and had to go anyway Sep 11 21:02:16 opinions about the choice of d-bus aside Sep 11 21:04:06 and iuso's new API is infinitely better. the old one confused people and was probably a bigger barrier to adoption than anything about directories Sep 11 21:04:11 well, theoretically Sep 11 21:04:17 O_o Sep 11 21:04:25 confused people? Sep 11 21:04:28 if you think there's any barrier to adoption around here other than people willing to spend time on shit you're deluded ;) Sep 11 21:04:39 rah: it was weird Sep 11 21:04:44 how so? Sep 11 21:04:51 it just was Sep 11 21:04:52 d-bus is just a remote procedure call protocol, not much different from any other remote procedure call protocol Sep 11 21:04:58 "it was weird" Sep 11 21:05:04 hmm Sep 11 21:05:21 rah: passing events and making the user go through them in a loop with case statements and all that junk Sep 11 21:05:24 yes, "it was weird" Sep 11 21:05:30 rah: the API was much more complex than it could be Sep 11 21:05:31 kfoltman: except it doesn't support remote procedure calls on other hosts :) Sep 11 21:05:44 the new one is plain old callbacks, similar to jack, and immediately sensible. it's not weird. Sep 11 21:05:58 oh right Sep 11 21:06:24 *shrug* Sep 11 21:06:29 callbacks were on the TODO list Sep 11 21:07:29 didnt we have a conversation on something similar yesterday, how good-or-bad something is, really doesnt correlate to its success/popularity Sep 11 21:07:43 rah: if you saw my TODO lists :D Sep 11 21:08:31 how much work something is to implement has a lot to do with popularity in a small nichey FLOSS community like this one Sep 11 21:08:32 quality too Sep 11 21:08:33 if every Linux application had everything it ever had on its TODO list, we wouldn't need anything more for the next 10 years ;) Sep 11 21:08:45 oh come on Sep 11 21:08:51 LASH was not difficult to implement Sep 11 21:08:55 even being "weird" Sep 11 21:09:13 it took me about two hours to LASHify any particular app Sep 11 21:09:15 from scratch Sep 11 21:10:00 no offense, but lash was a straightforward example of a library wrecked by the guy behind the scenes also doing the interface and things using it Sep 11 21:10:07 --> dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #lad Sep 11 21:10:15 the API was a bunch of weird stuff exposed from down in the protocol Sep 11 21:10:29 yes, it was Sep 11 21:10:59 from my perspective, this is all nit-pickey stuff Sep 11 21:11:01 anyway, no, it wasn't completely terrible or anything Sep 11 21:11:13 save your self defense for when people actually do imply something ;) Sep 11 21:11:28 library APIs are not nit-pickey. ever. Sep 11 21:11:42 you realise LASH was basically an RFC? Sep 11 21:11:49 in code? Sep 11 21:12:02 that was its status Sep 11 21:12:06 everything is about the little things, take your wife/woman car shopping one day, you will be a lot wiser after Sep 11 21:12:06 yaya Sep 11 21:12:11 I'm not stroking your ego :P Sep 11 21:12:15 it's now become something people are being paid to work on Sep 11 21:12:19 this is so wrong Sep 11 21:12:28 drobilla: well, to be honest - I didn't *like* LASH API, but it didn't give me any real trouble (except having to do more than I would like to, and I am lazy) Sep 11 21:12:48 kfoltman: we're all lazy, that's why we don't write ASM :) Sep 11 21:13:09 anyway Sep 11 21:13:43 some day, I'll have all the time in the world and I'll be able to write a replacement for LASH that isn't just an RFC Sep 11 21:13:43 out of the whole shit the plugin or host programmer needs to go through, things like LASH API are really a piece of cake Sep 11 21:13:50 :) Sep 11 21:14:12 a complete rewrite is hardly necessary to support some simple directory crap Sep 11 21:14:19 RFC Sep 11 21:14:27 comments received Sep 11 21:14:31 time to do it properly Sep 11 21:14:37 meh, go nuts Sep 11 21:14:43 I *will* Sep 11 21:14:48 perhaps Sep 11 21:14:51 when I get all the time in the world to work on it :) Sep 11 21:14:58 it will be a waste of time, and likely unused Sep 11 21:15:04 hah Sep 11 21:15:21 lash is the absolute worst project for masturbation Sep 11 21:15:32 you know what we need? something that will save and restore friggin' sessions. that's just. Sep 11 21:15:33 lol Sep 11 21:15:35 it's not that complicated Sep 11 21:15:38 you said that before Sep 11 21:15:39 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy97lOwvECs Sep 11 21:15:42 for rah Sep 11 21:15:44 right Sep 11 21:15:47 <-- thorwil has quit (Remote closed the connection) Sep 11 21:15:49 you do that Sep 11 21:15:58 I'll do what I need :) Sep 11 21:16:02 you and neko can wank off about database backends and whatever other insane nonsense all day Sep 11 21:16:08 but it's not going to actually do anyone any real good Sep 11 21:16:30 you're confusing what other people need and what I need Sep 11 21:16:50 you need to masturbate with a text editor into a bucket called lash :P Sep 11 21:16:56 you're also confusing "masturbation" with "coding" Sep 11 21:17:18 I know the difference between making a useful system and masturbatory coding Sep 11 21:17:32 this, possibly, is a statement on your personal sexual habits :) Sep 11 21:17:34 I don't know Sep 11 21:17:36 it is a difference you learn over time. appears you havn't yet ;) Sep 11 21:17:38 I don't want to know :) Sep 11 21:19:15 * cxo notes masturbate is synonymous with code in nerd speak Sep 11 21:19:25 speak for yourself.. Sep 11 21:19:59 do you look for slim 80 char formatted code or something? Sep 11 21:20:15 <-- remon has quit (Remote closed the connection) Sep 11 21:20:20 you two rocket scientists really can't work through this ultra complex metaphor? Sep 11 21:20:22 just.... wow Sep 11 21:20:50 booh hoo drobs Sep 11 21:20:59 * cxo is sick and is at home recovering Sep 11 21:21:13 i got the cold, and sore throat, and all that crap Sep 11 21:22:31 drobilla: or rah is just making fun of you at your expense :P Sep 11 21:22:40 cxo: way to condescendingly "booh hoo" someone for no reason then proceed to immediately whine to a bunch of people who don't give a shit ;) Sep 11 21:23:00 and i just read 14 pages of evidence-based management, and my head hurts, and i'm hungry, what are you gonna do about it Sep 11 21:23:16 kfoltman: not his style :) Sep 11 21:23:24 * kfoltman thinks something about "evidence-based management" and cxo, then suddenly stops and sighs Sep 11 21:23:31 lol MBA Sep 11 21:25:06 believe it or not Sep 11 21:25:06 --> swh (n=swh@88-97-6-240.dsl.zen.co.uk) has joined #lad Sep 11 21:25:47 --> hollunder (n=hollunde@eris.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at) has joined #lad Sep 11 21:26:03 lolMBA? Sep 11 21:26:11 "I CAN HAZ EASY DEGREE?" Sep 11 21:26:45 drobilla, you can get access to the Harvard Business Journal in pdf format through our library, the articles are really interesting, if you are into that kind of stuff Sep 11 21:26:51 MBA: Like getting a Master's in being a retard (TM) Sep 11 21:27:10 cxo: I should think it's really, really obvious I am not into that kind of stuff whatsoever Sep 11 21:28:12 O_o Sep 11 21:28:24 not my style eh? :) Sep 11 21:28:56 actually I think it's safe to say anyone who reads the Harvard Business Journal is somebody I do not like Sep 11 21:29:05 haha Sep 11 21:29:17 any periodical with "Business" in the title probably Sep 11 21:29:21 drobilla: s/who.*nal// Sep 11 21:29:22 "Management" doubly so Sep 11 21:29:49 why so much hate for management Sep 11 21:32:27 I'm a programmer? Sep 11 21:33:06 it's a common entertainment in lower year comp sci to guess who's going to fail out and go to business Sep 11 21:33:39 ie future PHB suit wearing douchebag retards Sep 11 21:33:49 who earn 4 times more than you anyway Sep 11 21:33:50 the entertainment part is it's really easy to guess perfectly :) Sep 11 21:33:53 and do nothing Sep 11 21:34:00 hey, they hold meetings! Sep 11 21:34:12 <-- dneary has quit ("Ex-Chat") Sep 11 21:34:22 the one who laughs last, is the one who laughs the most Sep 11 21:34:32 <-- hansfbaier (n=jack@125.163.133.237) has left #lad Sep 11 21:34:36 Tcl interface unloaded Sep 11 21:34:36 Python interface unloaded **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Sep 11 21:34:36 2008 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 11 22:05:02 2008 Sep 11 22:05:02 --> You are now talking on #lad Sep 11 22:05:03 --- Topic for #lad is Linux Audio Developers | Don't ask to ask, just ask | FAQs, Docs, Lists: http://lad.linuxaudio.org | Realtime preemption: http://rt.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Main_Page | LV2: http://lv2plug.in | Paste here: http://rafb.net/paste/ Sep 11 22:05:03 --- Topic for #lad set by larsl at Mon Jun 9 22:06:03 2008 Sep 11 22:05:30 kfoltman: yeah, but they can try. the 'system' is such that they're the ones who are 'allowed' to boss others around Sep 11 22:05:45 kfoltman: this is the fundamentally best thing about LV2 as opposed to, say, VST Sep 11 22:05:53 LV2 you can do whatever you want. you don't even have to tell anyone else about it Sep 11 22:06:05 VST you do what steinberg said you can do, or tough shit Sep 11 22:06:16 yes, that's indeed a fundamental difference Sep 11 22:06:19 in that sense LV2 (and open source in general) is anarchic Sep 11 22:06:50 (which, for those of you who ingest a bit too much mainstream media (particularly in the US), is a good thing, for the record) Sep 11 22:07:07 well, the politically correct word is "decentralized" :P Sep 11 22:07:29 too vague Sep 11 22:07:36 but yeah Sep 11 22:08:40 'course despite all that certain completely insane sociopaths have to pick out people they feel like seeing as being in a position of power and blame anything and everything that is bad on them Sep 11 22:08:43 cough. male. ahem. Sep 11 22:09:11 he does? Sep 11 22:09:17 it's nice with things like LV2 where it's explicit because they can't blame anything on anyone but their own lazy asses :) Sep 11 22:09:27 kfoltman: oh yeah. myself and paul davis are the antichrist of linux audio Sep 11 22:11:39 speaking of lv2, where the hell has larsl disappeared to? Sep 11 22:12:03 no idea :( Sep 11 22:13:10 I should probably apply that i18n patch of his to slv2 and release Sep 11 22:13:13 --> Lexridge (n=Lexridge@75.108.69.120) has joined #lad Sep 11 22:13:14 but it messes up the API :( Sep 11 22:13:46 heh, eternal problem, hack now vs proper solution some day later :P Sep 11 22:14:46 oh well. I just got operational on a 256 core cluster with 512GB RAM Sep 11 22:14:53 so I have things to do anyway :) Sep 11 22:15:44 * drobilla needs to write MPI support for ingen, mwahaha Sep 11 22:15:57 actually, I was thinking about this... the network interconnect of this thing is extremely bad-ass Sep 11 22:16:01 I bet I could do realtime audio on it Sep 11 22:17:18 I'm not even sure what Linux audio stuff I should work on, everything is either too difficult or not interesting or both Sep 11 22:17:41 I know the feeling Sep 11 22:17:52 most of this became like some kind of really shitty job without pay a long time ago :) Sep 11 22:18:43 <-- elg has quit ("So long and thanks for all the fish!") Sep 11 22:18:54 --> elg (n=fugalh@dhcp25.cs.nmsu.edu) has joined #lad Sep 11 22:20:39 except maybe ingen and lv2 itself. those are beautiful. :) Sep 11 22:22:28 so, should I call the ejaculate of my coding masturbation (a) LASH, or (b) something else Sep 11 22:22:37 and if (b), what? Sep 11 22:23:31 drobilla: is it possible to send OSC via event port from GUI to plugin in ingen? Sep 11 22:24:13 I think I should call it JACK Internetworked Zen Zounds Sep 11 22:24:14 rah: I don't suppose you could be convinced to just fix the little problems you see with lash... Sep 11 22:24:26 rah: i.e. do something useful :) Sep 11 22:24:28 drobilla: there aren't any little problems Sep 11 22:24:36 drobilla: there's just huge great ones Sep 11 22:24:43 rah: sigh. whatever. wank away then Sep 11 22:24:52 drobilla: and, no, you can't convince me to do something useful to you :) Sep 11 22:24:56 kfoltman: um.... maybe Sep 11 22:24:58 rah: useful to anyone Sep 11 22:26:15 daily #lad wankwar - CHECK Sep 11 22:26:36 meh, why mince words. I'm just amazed that after all these YEARS (literally) anyone could consider rewriting the thing and deferring SOLVING THE ACTUAL DAMN PROBLEM even more, without reason, is a good idea Sep 11 22:26:42 but it's your time, fuck it away as you wish Sep 11 22:27:40 in case you hadn't noticed, we differ on what "THE ACTUAL DAMN PROBLEM" actually is Sep 11 22:28:02 rah: the damn problem is saving and restoring sessions. obviously. Sep 11 22:28:23 and your idea of what constitutes "THE ACTUAL DAMN PROBLEM", is of no interest to me, just as my idea is of no interest to you Sep 11 22:28:29 drobilla: doesn't LASH do that? Sep 11 22:28:33 rah: and if you're referring to the directory stuff, well... if you think that's rewrite worthy frankly you're a much worse coder than I thought Sep 11 22:29:01 anyway Sep 11 22:29:06 you carry on with LASH Sep 11 22:29:08 rah: my only 'interest' here is that seeing time wasted irritates me Sep 11 22:29:12 I'll get to work on JIZZ Sep 11 22:29:23 rah: if you are really so keen on wasting it, go nuts. believe me when I say I do not care. have fun Sep 11 22:29:25 *fap* *fap* *fap* Sep 11 22:29:48 obviously I'm going to try a bit to have actual problems solved vs. you wanking in the corner Sep 11 22:29:56 though every day I wonder why I give a damn about any of this a little bit more Sep 11 22:32:42 * rah pokes swh Sep 11 22:33:49 maybe I'll just pull an MS and go monolithic Sep 11 22:34:05 the only person interested in doing anything to solve the session problem is iuso Sep 11 22:34:34 --> ze0 (i=ze@cpe-75-82-143-231.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #lad Sep 11 22:36:35 ingen as a plugin hosted in ardour and I'm happy. fuck it. herding cats has gotten old Sep 11 22:36:47 iuso: torch -> you Sep 11 22:36:52 I renounce my lash maintainership Sep 11 22:37:17 drobilla: wow, it's an honor Sep 11 22:37:32 drobilla: i'll get back to coding then Sep 11 22:37:40 not right now though, need to sleep first :) Sep 11 22:38:20 O_o Sep 11 22:38:26 "herding cats" eh? Sep 11 22:38:34 perhaps this is the problem Sep 11 22:38:57 maintain != manage coders Sep 11 22:39:05 maintain == manage patches Sep 11 22:39:20 shall we be blunt? Sep 11 22:39:29 you and nedko both don't know a horrible idea from your asshole Sep 11 22:39:40 which isn't to say you don't have good ones, but still Sep 11 22:39:58 and, correct, giving a shit == mistake on my part Sep 11 22:40:01 which I have just remedied Sep 11 22:40:15 <-- kat_ has quit ("Leaving") Sep 11 22:40:21 well, if we're being blunt, coming from you that means nothing whatsoever :) Sep 11 22:40:39 meh. that's fine Sep 11 22:40:44 your rewrite will go nowhere and be used by nobody Sep 11 22:40:45 *handbags*at*10*paces* Sep 11 22:40:56 if it ever even exists, which I doubt Sep 11 22:41:17 though this is one of those funny situations where saying so motivates you more Sep 11 22:41:24 I doubt enough to actually make a difference ;) Sep 11 22:41:40 it's not like writing a session handler is an impossible task though Sep 11 22:42:09 even if it did it's a weekend's hack to make the existing lash do whatever anyway Sep 11 22:42:16 so I suppose it's lulz for me no matter what Sep 11 22:42:30 <-- ze has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Sep 11 22:42:31 --- ze0 is now known as ze Sep 11 22:52:28 --> rncbc (n=rncbc@a81-84-112-230.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #lad Sep 11 22:54:16 --> kayelem (n=kayelem@technogoths.demon.co.uk) has joined #lad Sep 11 22:55:38 <-- kijjaz has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Sep 11 22:56:34 <-- edogawa has quit (Remote closed the connection) Sep 11 22:56:40 --> kijjaz (n=kijjaz@ppp-58-8-69-146.revip2.asianet.co.th) has joined #lad Sep 11 23:03:06 <-- kfoltman has quit ("Ex-Chat") Sep 11 23:12:26 <-- swh has quit () Sep 11 23:28:58 I'm looking forward to the day that I know enough to do some grumpy talking with you guys :) Sep 11 23:33:01 --> hansfbaier (n=jack@125.163.134.152) has joined #lad Sep 11 23:39:36 <-- elg has quit ()